HDTV on Kauai, HI

[malina822]

Aloha BPBS,

i just found your website online and I love it!

Just a few questions from beautiful downtown Kauai...Hawaii is going to do the digital conversion a little earlier than the rest of the nation, (01/15/09) but here on Kauai due to us having a junky low powered transmitter,
we will not be a part of the conversion. TPTB say we will be converting at a later date that has yet to be determined.
I just got a Sony Bravia 720p LCD HDTV for Christmas. (Thanks Mom & Dad)

I am wondering what I can do to set it up so I am getting the best picture I can get i.e. what type cables could I use?


Being on Kauai my options are pretty limited so all I have is Oceanic Time/Warner through the cable hook-up in the wall. (I prefer to not do satellite due to the breezes from those nasty hurricanes we get down here every so often)
Do I REALLY need a cable box to get full HDTV? When I set the TV up I noticed some of the channels are already broadcasting in Digital as the setup said I had 74 regular channels and 30 someodd digital channels. I also have noticed that some of these digital channels are broadcasting in 4:3 480i or just NTSC or 16:9 1080iHD or 16:9 720p. The majority of the digital channels are broadcasting with the 4:3 480i. I think we have QAM here and this is why I am getting some digital channels? This is all pretty new to me but I am learning!

Don't much care about the audio because I am hearing impaired. If you could tell me, I also would like to know why I get closed captioning on an analog channel but I don't on the digital side? I assume this will be redundant after conversion.

Also got some questions re: DVD recorders but I will post on the appropriate forum.

Mahalo Nui Loa for your feedback (Thank you very much)

Aloha, Malina

[BADuHamel]

Aloha BPBS,

i just found your website online and I love it!

Just a few questions from beautiful downtown Kauai...Hawaii is going to do the digital conversion a little earlier than the rest of the nation, (01/15/09) but here on Kauai due to us having a junky low powered transmitter,
we will not be a part of the conversion. TPTB say we will be converting at a later date that has yet to be determined.
I just got a Sony Bravia 720p LCD HDTV for Christmas. (Thanks Mom & Dad)

I am wondering what I can do to set it up so I am getting the best picture I can get i.e. what type cables could I use?


Being on Kauai my options are pretty limited so all I have is Oceanic Time/Warner through the cable hook-up in the wall. (I prefer to not do satellite due to the breezes from those nasty hurricanes we get down here every so often)
Do I REALLY need a cable box to get full HDTV? When I set the TV up I noticed some of the channels are already broadcasting in Digital as the setup said I had 74 regular channels and 30 someodd digital channels. I also have noticed that some of these digital channels are broadcasting in 4:3 480i or just NTSC or 16:9 1080iHD or 16:9 720p. The majority of the digital channels are broadcasting with the 4:3 480i. I think we have QAM here and this is why I am getting some digital channels? This is all pretty new to me but I am learning!

Don't much care about the audio because I am hearing impaired. If you could tell me, I also would like to know why I get closed captioning on an analog channel but I don't on the digital side? I assume this will be redundant after conversion.

Also got some questions re: DVD recorders but I will post on the appropriate forum.

Mahalo Nui Loa for your feedback (Thank you very much)

Aloha, Malina

Aloha, Malina,

Boy, I wish I could be out there enjoying that gorgeous Hawaiian scenery! For now, I just have to settle for popping this into my Blu-ray player.

It seems to me, from what you're saying, is that your set already has a built-in CableCard tuner, so, no, you won't need a cable box. Anyway, if you already have digital cable broadcasting in HD (which apparently you do) then you need not worry about the digital switch-over. That only affects people who are getting their TV over-the-air (via antenna).

Enjoy your new television and the wonderful South Pacific air.

[BADuHamel]

Jut saw your added questions about closed captioning. I really can't say why that is, but some digital broadcasts have CC and some don't. I'm not personally hearing impaired, but I have often thought that it's an inconsistency that should be addressed. Having DirecTV, I know that some DirecTV channels have CC and some don't, which I'm sure is bothersome to quite a few people.

Perhaps someone who has some further insight than I can on this can address the issue.

[malina822]

Mahalo for the input...just to clarify about the closed captioning...if I am watching say ABC on the analog channel it will have closed captioning but when I switch to the digital ABC it doesn't have it.

It is sad that all tv stations don't provide closed captioning to those who need it.

Aloha, Malina

[malina822]

The real reason I am trying to get as much information as I can about cables is that I would like to get a DVD recorder to complete my set up.

From the investigation I have been doing it looks to me like if I want a DVD recorder I would have to get a cable box in order to record. If this is not true I sure would like to hear about it. I hope i'm wrong...

Also, I have seen a feature in some DVD recorders something called closed captioning data capture. Is this available in all DVD recorders?

Lastly I suppose I need a DVD recorder that will upscale my vast collection of DVD's (200+ and counting).

Can anyone recommend a recorder with the above info in mind? Mind you I hope I don't have to pay an arm and a leg or my first born...

Mahalo plenty again...

Malina

[BADuHamel]

The real reason I am trying to get as much information as I can about cables is that I would like to get a DVD recorder to complete my set up.

From the investigation I have been doing it looks to me like if I want a DVD recorder I would have to get a cable box in order to record. If this is not true I sure would like to hear about it. I hope i'm wrong...

Also, I have seen a feature in some DVD recorders something called closed captioning data capture. Is this available in all DVD recorders?

Lastly I suppose I need a DVD recorder that will upscale my vast collection of DVD's (200+ and counting).

Can anyone recommend a recorder with the above info in mind? Mind you I hope I don't have to pay an arm and a leg or my first born...

Mahalo plenty again...

Malina

Hmm, yes I think if you wanted to record from cable to a DVD recorder you would probably need a cable box. I'm not certain, but I don't think I've heard of a DVD recorder with a built-in CableCard tuner, although I could be wrong.

[MrBoylan]

The real reason I am trying to get as much information as I can about cables is that I would like to get a DVD recorder to complete my set up.

From the investigation I have been doing it looks to me like if I want a DVD recorder I would have to get a cable box in order to record. If this is not true I sure would like to hear about it. I hope i'm wrong...

Also, I have seen a feature in some DVD recorders something called closed captioning data capture. Is this available in all DVD recorders?

Lastly I suppose I need a DVD recorder that will upscale my vast collection of DVD's (200+ and counting).

Can anyone recommend a recorder with the above info in mind? Mind you I hope I don't have to pay an arm and a leg or my first born...

Mahalo plenty again...

Malina

Aloha, Malina,

Welcome to the forum! Many current DVD recorders do include both ATSC (over the air digital) and QAM (digital cable) tuners on board. But if you do not use a cable box and want to record cable programming, you will be limited to whatever non-premium channels your local provider is broadcasting unencrypted, over the cable line. Basically, the same channels you get when you plug your coax cable directly into your TV and do the "auto add" or "auto-program" set-up you will also receive on the DVD recorder, assuming you buy a DVD recorder with a QAM tuner. If you use a cable box, then you will be able to record anything that your service plan entitles you to watch.

But there is a potential issue here. Because you need the Closed Captioning feature to work, you actually may not be able to record from a cable box *UNLESS* you can set your cable box to always have closed caption data visible. When you connect your cable box to your DVD recorder, it's likely going to use either a composite video cable or an S-Video cable as well as a stereo pair of analog audio cables in order to get a signal to your DVD recorder. As such, you would no longer have access to the embedded CC data in the data stream, again *UNLESS* you make these captions visible while the DVD recorder is recording the show. This is how I understand closed captioning to work, as an embedded data stream (vertically blanked) but honestly you should get a "second opinion" from someone who is more of an expert than I.

If you want to have *defeatable* closed captions in your recordings, or if your cable box cannot be set to always display closed caption data, then you may need to record to DVD directly from the built-in QAM tuner. Again, I admit I am no expert on how the closed caption data stream is embedded in the broadcast program, nor how it could be captured onto a DVD (maybe as a subtitle track?) but I can tell you that if you don't see it appear on the screen while you're recording from the cable box, connected via composite or S-Video cables, then it's possible the data will be lost and there will be no way to get it back when you play the disc back. If I can, I'll do some testing of this at home with one of my DVD recorders to see what happens.

I think a better option for you might be to get a cable box with DVR (recording) capabilities *and* a DVD recorder. Because this way the cable DVR will record shows to its internal hard drive with all data intact (including closed caption data). You can then play these recordings back with the closed captions exposed, and record the shows you want to keep to DVD after the fact.

And as for your other question about upconversion, your TV has upconversion circuitry built into it. All HDTVs do. Otherwise 480i DVDs would all show up as a 720x480 pixel window-boxed image in the middle of your screen. And the resolution of most "720p" LCD TVs is actually 1366x768 pixels. It's not exactly 720p which is 1280x720. What this means is that if you get an upconverting DVD player or DVD recorder, you're going to be upconverting to a resolution that does not match your set's native resolution. If you upconvert to 720p (1280x720) then the TV set is going to have to scale it up a second time to get it to the 1366x768 native resolution. If your set accepts a 1080p input, then the DVD player or recorder will upscale the DVD image to 1080p, and then the TV will down-scale it back to 1366x768. Neither of these processes is ideal.

Assuming the upconverter built into your TV does a good job, you're just as well off just sending the TV the native 480i signal from the DVD either via HDMI or component video and let the TV itself do the upconversion ONCE to its native resolution of 1366x768.

And as to Brandon's remarks about CableCard, this is a device that would allow you to tune in *ALL* of your licensed cable channels directly on a TV or recording device without the need for a cable box. But I've also never heard of a DVD recorder that supports CableCard. Some of the recent HD TiVo machines support it, but these do not have DVD drives. Also, we're actually now in transition to a totally new kind of CableCard called Tru2way which is vastly superior to the current CableCard in that it fully supports interactive content such as guides and Pay Per View. I believe these Tru2way-enabled cable services are only available right now in certain test markets in Chicago and Denver. It may be some time before these cards (as well as devices and cable operators which support them) make it out into other areas of the country.

So anyway... hopefully this will shed a little light on your options. Again, any DVD recorder with a built in QAM tuner will be able to tune in and record the same channels you can see on your current TV when you plug in the coax cable to its cable input. But exactly how they support closed caption data may vary. And if you record from a cable box then it's possible that closed captions must be enabled/visible when you record the show.

Regards,

-Chris

[malina822]

Chris,

Mahalo Nui Loa for the feedback...Wow! Ummmm...I am really amazed by your knowledge in this area...makes me feel pretty inadequate, but I am learning. Hope you don't mind me taking advantage of your wisdom.

Really, my goal is to NOT have to get a cable box at all. The only reason I ever wanted a cable box was to get the Japanese/Korean Channels we like so much down here. Since my Sony Bravia (I will give you the model number so you know what the specs are for my TV: KDL32L4000) is now giving me these channels thanks to the QAM Tuner in the TV I have no need for a cable box.

The issue I need to address is what type of DVD Recorder can I buy that will record off of the QAM Channels as well as the others. I saw a Magnavox at KMart that caught my eyes because of the closed captioning issue I have. Here is the link for the KMart page that has the specs for this machine.

[URL="http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_018W678696110001P?sid=BVReview"]

I don't think it will work out though because you said that my TV is already upconverting and this recorder also upconverts. Also, I think whatever I get it will have to have a QAM Tuner won't it?

I wonder if I am overthinking this process? Maybe I should get a DVD/VCR Recorder combo...then I could record on VCR with closed captioning and then record the VCR tape to DVD disk? Do you think this might work?

Again, thanks for all your help. I am telling all my friends here about the website! I hope I can buy the recorder through your site as well!

Malina

[MrBoylan]

The issue I need to address is what type of DVD Recorder can I buy that will record off of the QAM Channels as well as the others.

I'm not sure what you mean by "as well as the others." What other channels are you trying to record? The QAM tuner will tune in everything that it can from your local cable provider. Do you *also* want to record channels over the air from an antenna? If so, that might be tricky as very few DVD recorders have two antenna inputs (one for cable, one for over the air). If you let me know what you mean about "other channels" I can get a better picture of what you're trying to do.

I saw a Magnavox at KMart that caught my eyes because of the closed captioning issue I have. Here is the link for the KMart page that has the specs for this machine.

[URL="http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_018W678696110001P?sid=BVReview"]

I don't see anything in the specs about a tuner. Ar you sure this recorder even has a built-in tuner? Many of the less expensive DVD recorders on the market now do NOT include a tuner so they won't have to worry about the whole DTS transition. They record only from a line input. I can't say for sure whether this is the case with this one, but based on the price, and the lack of any tuner details in the specs I think it may be tuner-less.

I don't think it will work out though because you said that my TV is already upconverting and this recorder also upconverts.

Pretty much any DVD player or recorder you buy these days will have upconversion over HDMI but they all vary in how WELL they do upconversion. You should be able to defeat the upconversion in any of these players/recorder by setting output to 480i or 480p and letting the TV do the upconversion.

Also, I think whatever I get it will have to have a QAM Tuner won't it?

Unless you are willing to record from a cable box, then yes, you need to make sure the recorder you buy does have a QAM tuner in it.

I wonder if I am overthinking this process? Maybe I should get a DVD/VCR Recorder combo...then I could record on VCR with closed captioning and then record the VCR tape to DVD disk? Do you think this might work?

That shouldn't be necessary. And the quality would take a big hit if you had to go to tape first then to DVD. I think the only issue that's confusing is how the closed captioning data is carried from the broadcast signal to the recording device and ultimately how it gets displayed. I believe with analog broadcasting, the CC data is embedded in the broadcast signal in a way that makes it invisible (unless enabled) and that this invisible data does carry onto an analog recording. Playback of analog closed captions (whether live or recorded onto tape) is done on the actual TV. But then apparently if you use an HDMI cable and upconverting DVD player, the analog CC data may be lost (so you might need to connect via component video instead). Here's another good reason to not upconvert in the player but let the TV do that.

For digitally broadcast programs with closed captions, I think the CC data is just a part of the digital data stream. I did a little bit of testing and found that a recording I made on my DISH DVR did have closed captions in it. But at playback, I had to turn them on in the DISH DVR, not on the TV. So I'm guessing that DVD recorders with digital (ATSC/QAM) tuners also have a way of enabling/disabling CC display on the actual player.

My feeling is that as long as you do purchase a DVD recorder with a built-in QAM tuner, then you should be fine. Record the shows via the DVD recorders's built-in QAM tuner and you'll be able to access the closed captions at playback time, either via the DVD recorder or the Television itself.

Honestly, my feeling is that the quality of DVD recorders has generally gone downhill over the past couple of years. The top models used to include built-in hard disk drives, which made it really easy to remove commercials and dub to disc. The current models pretty much all omit this feature.

The newer models do include digital tuners, but then their support of widescreen (16:9) material is spotty. The Panasonic recorders are pretty good, and do support native widescreen recordings, but only on the less common DVD-RAM discs (which will only play back on Panasonic players). Of course, you can usually record the programs in "squished" (anamorphic) mode then stretch them back out to correct geometry at playback time, but that's kind of klugey and awkward. DVD recorders also rarely include any program guide functionality so programming them to record a show is like an old VCR where you manually enter time, channel and recording length, as opposed to clicking once on a guide listing. And more fundamentally, DVDs are simply *NOT HIGH DEF* so using them to record high definition programming is always going to be a sacrifice in quality.

In general, DVRs with integrated tuners (cable DVRs, satellite DVRs, and the new Over-the-air DTVPal DVR from DISH network) support High Def content much better than DVD recorders. They support the native 16:9 shows properly, usually come with integrated guides to simplify the scheduling process and usually come with multiple tuners so you can watch one thing while recording another (or watch a recorded show while recording two OTHER shows). But the drawback, of course, is that they have fixed storage which is not transportable and they eventually run out of room which means you have to delete stuff. DISH Network's satellite DVRs have a feature where you can dump shows to an external hard drive via USB, but you still need to connect these hard drives to that same DISH DVR in order to play back the show.

Trying to graft a standard def DVD recorder into a high def world is really a less-than-perfect interim solution. Eventually (next year?), once the technology comes down in price and hopefully some of the copyright issues have been settled, we should have Blu-ray recorders which support high def content properly.

Again, thanks for all your help. I am telling all my friends here about the website! I hope I can buy the recorder through your site as well!

Malina

OK. Thanks. In terms of which DVD recorder to buy now, I am generally partial to Panasonic DVD recorders, having owned and reviewed a few. And their latest model seems to be pretty good (again, with the caveat that there is no integrated guide and that widescreen recordings can be a little tricky). It supports analog and digital closed captions, includes OTA and cable tuners (NTSC/ATSC/QAM). And if you buy it from Amazon via our link then the site will make a couple of bucks:

DMR-EZ28K on Amazon.com

Anyway... I hope this helps.

Regards,

-Chris

[malina822]

Thanks very much Chris...just what I needed to know.

What I meant by "as well as the other channels" was before I got the new TV I just got what the basic expanded cable package was down here which was like 78 channels and all analog. With the new TV got the extra versions of the Big 4 networks (listing on my TV from 480i to 720p and 1080i the original channels are listing as NTSC which will go away I assume as the conversion completes in the mainland) plus the others which I have been referring to as the QAM channels.

I think I will end up taking your recommendation and getting the Panasonic. Before I do that though just need to pick your brain a bit more. Since there are going to be more upgrades on the horizon for recorders I might just wait until they appear and see what you recommend at that time. Until then I do need a player of some sort. I do have a pretty basic laptop (Acer Aspire 5610Z) that has a DVI-D Port, 4 USB 2.0 Ports, RF (S-video-in) (NTSC/PAL) Port, S-video/TV-out (NTSC/PAL) Port, AV-in Port and a VGA Port. Would I be able to hook up my Laptop to the TV and use it as a player? If you think (and I have my doubts) I could use my laptop to burn movies/shows off of the TV please let me know. I would love to explore what my TV viewing options could be using my laptop which (if it make a difference to you) I also use Verizon Broadband as my connector to the internet. Maybe not a topic for this particular thread...

Also, if I just can't wait...a) I will have to get HDMI Cables, what do you recommend, b) same for what disks to use to tape to...I would prefer to use something that is rewriteable and, Lord knows the only disks I have seen on Kauai are pretty basic and, c) I have a pretty basic cable from the wall jack to the tv that I would like to upgrade or do you think that I don't need to?

Lastly, seems to me that if you are taking your time and effort answering dumb questions like mine that the least I can do is purchase the items that will support you and the good work you do!

Mahalo again for all the help...

Aloha, Malina