optical versus coaxial digital and HDMI

[born2flyjet]

I'm contemplating between Panasonic 35k and 55K Blu Ray. I currently own HK AVR 230 rcvr and it doesn't support HDMI and using JBL speakers (SCS136SI)...(mid, sub, 2 rears, 2 fronts).

Question 1: Is there much difference in audio quality in optical versus HDMI?

Question 2: Is there much difference in audio quality in optical versus coaxial digital?

Thanks, I'm trying to figure out whether I should purchase a new rcvr with HDMI or spend the additonal to get the 55K (which supports 7.1 analog audio via Digital Coaxial)

I know there is a similar thread but I would like to see if I can more information between the use of HDMI vs S/PDIF (Coaxial or Optical). I understand that the new Blu Rays supports DTS-HD Master Audio, but given my equipment (rcver and speakers), whether I should spend the extra $$$.

Thanks

[MrBoylan]

I'm contemplating between Panasonic 35k and 55K Blu Ray. I currently own HK AVR 230 rcvr and it doesn't support HDMI and using JBL speakers (SCS136SI)...(mid, sub, 2 rears, 2 fronts).

Question 1: Is there much difference in audio quality in optical versus HDMI?

Question 2: Is there much difference in audio quality in optical versus coaxial digital?

Thanks, I'm trying to figure out whether I should purchase a new rcvr with HDMI or spend the additonal to get the 55K (which supports 7.1 analog audio via Digital Coaxial)

I know there is a similar thread but I would like to see if I can more information between the use of HDMI vs S/PDIF (Coaxial or Optical). I understand that the new Blu Rays supports DTS-HD Master Audio, but given my equipment (rcver and speakers), whether I should spend the extra $$$.

Thanks

Hi,

Welcome to the forum. If you're trying to be cost-conscious (and who isn't these days?) then your best bet is to buy the BD55 and try the analog 5.1-channel hook-ups to your current receiver.

There are a few reasons why this is superior to just using optical/coax digital connections, perhaps the most important of which is that fiber/coax connections cannot support discrete multi-channel PCM soundtracks, but analog multi-channel connections can. Many Blu-ray Discs use multi-channel PCM soundtracks, and if you try to pass these over fiber/coax, you'll get a down-mixed 2-channel version instead of the multi-channel mix. Also, by using the multi-channel analog outputs of the BD55, you can take advantage of the new lossless surround sound formats - DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD. The BD55 will convert these internally to multi-channel analog output without having to revert to the lossy soundtracks (regular DTS or Dolby Digital).

Some people who use this approach actually connect the fiber or coax output between player and receiver *also* so that they can use this for regular DVD playback. The BD35 and BD55's support for DTS-HD is called "DTS-HD Master Audio Essential" and this means the internal DTS decoder does not support the DTS legacy "extensions" (DTS 96/24, DTS-ES 6.1), so the best way to support legacy DTS soundtracks from DVD is via a digital connection to your receiver (which in your case means fiber or coax). The other benefit to connecting things this way is that you can take advantage of your receiver's built-in bass management via the digital inputs (again, when watching regular DVDs).

In terms of your other question, HDMI audio is the best overall, because it can pass all of the new formats (Multi-channel PCM, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, DTS-HD Master Audio) digitally to a compatible receiver. And, because it is carried digitally, your receiver's bass management, EQ and delay settings will all be respected. This can make set-up a lot simpler. If you use the multi-channel analog outputs instead, then you will have to do level, bass management and delay settings in the player itself, which is a bit more limited.

And as for the difference between fiber and coax, in my opinion, there is no difference. Format-wise, the underlying data stream is identical between both, so if you get the signal delivered to your receiver properly, there should be no audible difference between coax and fiberoptic connections.

So, again, my advice is to buy the BD55 and 6 analog RCA cables and try things out via the hybrid multi-channel analog/fiber optic or coax digital approach. If you like what you're hearing, then it will save you the expense of a receiver upgrade. The BD35 is actually getting a little hard to find these days (possibly temporarily), but stock on the BD55 is still pretty good so you can get it for a decent discount below MSRP. You can support the site by buying it via the below link:

DMP-BD55 on Amazon.com

Hope that helps.

-Chris

[dbesser]

Hi,
I am at my parents house and have the same decision to make - whether to tell them to get a bd35 (tons of them at costco for 279.99 including cable) and upgrade their receiver, or keep their HK AVR 230 and buy a bd55.
The piece i'm struggling with is that with the AVR 230, it doesn't seem like it's possible to set the audio "input" for the DVD component to direct 6 or direct 8 (analogue) - does anyone know how to do this? Thanks in advance!

[BADuHamel]

Hi,
I am at my parents house and have the same decision to make - whether to tell them to get a bd35 (tons of them at costco for 279.99 including cable) and upgrade their receiver, or keep their HK AVR 230 and buy a bd55.
The piece i'm struggling with is that with the AVR 230, it doesn't seem like it's possible to set the audio "input" for the DVD component to direct 6 or direct 8 (analogue) - does anyone know how to do this? Thanks in advance!

If it isn't possible to redirect the DVD component's selection to the analogue inputs, can't you just directly select Direct 6 or Direct 8 instead and achieve the same end results? Maybe the display won't show "DVD", but you'll still be hearing the output from the BD55.

[BADuHamel]

Hi,

Welcome to the forum. If you're trying to be cost-conscious (and who isn't these days?) then your best bet is to buy the BD55 and try the analog 5.1-channel hook-ups to your current receiver.

There are a few reasons why this is superior to just using optical/coax digital connections, perhaps the most important of which is that fiber/coax connections cannot support discrete multi-channel PCM soundtracks, but analog multi-channel connections can. Many Blu-ray Discs use multi-channel PCM soundtracks, and if you try to pass these over fiber/coax, you'll get a down-mixed 2-channel version instead of the multi-channel mix. Also, by using the multi-channel analog outputs of the BD55, you can take advantage of the new lossless surround sound formats - DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD. The BD55 will convert these internally to multi-channel analog output without having to revert to the lossy soundtracks (regular DTS or Dolby Digital).

Some people who use this approach actually connect the fiber or coax output between player and receiver *also* so that they can use this for regular DVD playback. The BD35 and BD55's support for DTS-HD is called "DTS-HD Master Audio Essential" and this means the internal DTS decoder does not support the DTS legacy "extensions" (DTS 96/24, DTS-ES 6.1), so the best way to support legacy DTS soundtracks from DVD is via a digital connection to your receiver (which in your case means fiber or coax). The other benefit to connecting things this way is that you can take advantage of your receiver's built-in bass management via the digital inputs (again, when watching regular DVDs).

In terms of your other question, HDMI audio is the best overall, because it can pass all of the new formats (Multi-channel PCM, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, DTS-HD Master Audio) digitally to a compatible receiver. And, because it is carried digitally, your receiver's bass management, EQ and delay settings will all be respected. This can make set-up a lot simpler. If you use the multi-channel analog outputs instead, then you will have to do level, bass management and delay settings in the player itself, which is a bit more limited.

And as for the difference between fiber and coax, in my opinion, there is no difference. Format-wise, the underlying data stream is identical between both, so if you get the signal delivered to your receiver properly, there should be no audible difference between coax and fiberoptic connections.

So, again, my advice is to buy the BD55 and 6 analog RCA cables and try things out via the hybrid multi-channel analog/fiber optic or coax digital approach. If you like what you're hearing, then it will save you the expense of a receiver upgrade. The BD35 is actually getting a little hard to find these days (possibly temporarily), but stock on the BD55 is still pretty good so you can get it for a decent discount below MSRP. You can support the site by buying it via the below link:

DMP-BD55 on Amazon.com

Hope that helps.

-Chris

Well, just one thing I'd like to add to Chris' assessment which is right on target, there are a couple of differences between optical and coax which can lead to some differences in audio quality: optical is more prone signal loss which can cause "jitter" and coax is more prone to magnetic interference. Both of this issues present themselves more readily over longer cable runs. Jitter can cause harsh sounding high frequencies and an overall "cold" sound, what audiophiles refer to as "digititis". Magnetic interference can send low-frequency hums through the entire system.

[MrBoylan]

Hi,
I am at my parents house and have the same decision to make - whether to tell them to get a bd35 (tons of them at costco for 279.99 including cable) and upgrade their receiver, or keep their HK AVR 230 and buy a bd55.
The piece i'm struggling with is that with the AVR 230, it doesn't seem like it's possible to set the audio "input" for the DVD component to direct 6 or direct 8 (analogue) - does anyone know how to do this? Thanks in advance!

I assume you're worried about the complexity for your parents if you hook things up via the 6-channel analog inputs and they have to hit a couple of extra buttons to get sound? What you could do is get the BD55, hook up the fiberoptic or coax digital output to the DVD input on the AVR320, and then also hook up the multi-channel (5.1 or 7.1) analog outputs to the corresponding multi-channel analog inputs on the receiver. There is no problem using both. You will want to set Dolby and DTS to "bitstream" output so you get standard Dolby Digital and DTS tracks over the S/PDIF digital outputs.

This way they will always have sound, even if they "hit the wrong button" but then when you come over and simply *must* hear the lossless surround tracks, you can hit the "6/8 CH" button on the remote to switch over to the multi-channel analog inputs. This will save you those late night tech support calls, and it will lower the expense of the upgrade while not really skimping at all on quality. Because even if you DO buy the BD35 and get them a new receiver, then you'll still probably have to show them how to use the new receiver all over again, right? I mean, I'm all for upgrading to an all HDMI system, for simplicity, but it's not really necessary here.

Also, if you want to make things even simpler, get them a Logitech Harmony remote or a URC Digital R5 and program it to fire up everything they need with just one or two button presses. You can program in that "6/8 CH direct" button into an activity or a macro to set the receiver to the right listening mode automatically.

Hope that helps...

-Chris

[dbesser]

Thanks everyone for all the responses. I just wanted to double check this one thing...I am running component from the blu-ray player to the receiver then component from the receiver to the tv (there's about a 25ft component over coax run to the TV in the walls, so no chance for HDMI). When I select DVD on the AVR (to choose the video signal), as described earlier, I only get coax/optical/2-channel analogue as options. I'm worried that when we choose 6-channel or 8-channel direct as an input source, it'll wipe away the image on the screen, since both the 6 and 8 channel direct are classified as inputs (just like DVD, coax, etc.).

[MrBoylan]

Thanks everyone for all the responses. I just wanted to double check this one thing...I am running component from the blu-ray player to the receiver then component from the receiver to the tv (there's about a 25ft component over coax run to the TV in the walls, so no chance for HDMI). When I select DVD on the AVR (to choose the video signal), as described earlier, I only get coax/optical/2-channel analogue as options. I'm worried that when we choose 6-channel or 8-channel direct as an input source, it'll wipe away the image on the screen, since both the 6 and 8 channel direct are classified as inputs (just like DVD, coax, etc.).

Too bad you can't get HDMI from the player to the TV as that's the only way to let the player upconvert standard DVDs. Otherwise standard DVDs will be limited to 480p. If your parents' TV has good upconversion processing, then you'll be fine but the player itself cannot do upconversion over component (this is consistent with pretty much all Blu-ray players). HDMI is also the only way to get 1080p/60 and 1080p/24 to the TV (assuming the TV supports those input resolutions).

As for the other question, the manual doesn't really make it clear what will happen to the video source when you select 6-CH from the unit or the remote. I'm assuming it will leave the video source as the last one selected. It wouldn't make any sense to do it differently. But you're going to need to try it and see unless you can find someone else who owns the receiver who is using the multi-channel analog input.

Good luck!

-Chris

[BIslander]

When I select DVD on the AVR (to choose the video signal), as described earlier, I only get coax/optical/2-channel analogue as options. I'm worried that when we choose 6-channel or 8-channel direct as an input source, it'll wipe away the image on the screen, since both the 6 and 8 channel direct are classified as inputs (just like DVD, coax, etc.).

From looking at p24 of the manual, I think you'll be fine. The description matches the typical performance of a receiver's external inputs - selecting 6 CH DIRECT passes whatever audio is arriving over the 5.1 analog inputs to the AVR's amps. The other audio inputs are muted. These typically work as an override for whatever audio source you have associated with an activity when you set up the receiver.