Blu-ray audio output via optical connector or analog

[scottkahn]

Hi,

I'm trying to decide between the following players to buy:
Samsung BD-P3600
Panasonic DMP-BD60K
LG BD390
Sony PS3

My DVD player currently connects to my Samsung 51" DLP TV via an HDMI-to-DVI adaptor (TV's a few years old, but is 1024p), and the audio goes to my Yamaha HTR-5650 via the optical output.

In the review I read of the Panasonic, it noted that if you use the optical audio output you lose the full multi-channel surround audio, of which I only need 5.1. But none of the other reviews mention this detail of the audio.

What's my best choice here from the audio/optical output perspective?

AND is there any reason why I won't be able to get 1024p video resolution with my HDMI-to-DVI adaptor?

Thanks!

Scott

[jnabq]

I'm using a HDMI to DVI adapter to my Sony HS20 projector, but it is only 1080i. If your using a good quality adapter there shouldn't be any reason it wouldn't work. I've connected my adapter to a HDMI switch as well, which allows my Panasonic BD80 and Dish 722 to be connected and switched between. I've had no problems. The adapter shouldn't have any bandwidth limitation problem, but some lower quality ones may introduce sparkles I understand.

Looks like that Yamaha has analog inputs for "HD" audio, looks like you'll need a player that has analog outputs to take advantage of HD sound tracks. As I mentioned, using the BD80 to an older Onkyo using the analog inputs/outputs and I'm really enjoyin the sound quality on BluRay.

Take into consideration the "LFE" issues/Bass management, using analog inputs.

MrBoylan has some great info and links in the forum here for your research, some of which lead me to purchase the BD80 to deal with the audio limitations on my Onkyo. GL

[scottkahn]

Actually, the Yamaha has optical input for 5.1 sound. I just picked up the Samsung BD-P3600... guess I'll see if the audio comes through in 5.1 surround!

Thanks,
Scott

[MrBoylan]

Originally Posted by scottkahn

Hi,

I'm trying to decide between the following players to buy:
Samsung BD-P3600
Panasonic DMP-BD60K
LG BD390
Sony PS3

My DVD player currently connects to my Samsung 51" DLP TV via an HDMI-to-DVI adaptor (TV's a few years old, but is 1024p), and the audio goes to my Yamaha HTR-5650 via the optical output.

Hmmm... Never heard of "1024p" - what's the actual native resolution of the set? DLP sets normally have a resolution of 1280x720 or (more recently) 1920x1080. I've never heard of a DLP chip with a vertical resolution of 1024 pixels. If you post your model number or can find the set's native resolution in the manual, then this would be helpful in answering the question.

In the review I read of the Panasonic, it noted that if you use the optical audio output you lose the full multi-channel surround audio, of which I only need 5.1. But none of the other reviews mention this detail of the audio.

What's my best choice here from the audio/optical output perspective?

What you're talking about is not unique to the BD60, but you're overstating the issue a bit. Optical and coax (S/PDIF) digital connections cannot support the full bandwidth of the latest surround sound formats: Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD and multi-channel PCM. What happens when you try to send a DTS-HD track from a Blu-ray Disc over an optical connection is that it sends the "core" DTS track instead, which can be up to 5.1 channels (like what you'd see on a standard DVD). For Dolby TrueHD, it will send a "companion" Dolby Digital track (also up to 5.1), and for a multi-channel PCM soundtrack, the player will send 2-channel PCM. Only in this last case (multi-channel PCM) will you lose your discrete multi-channel surround track.

In the case of Dolby and DTS, you still get discrete 5.1-channel surround sound, but it won't be the full quality lossless surround track stored on the disc. The only way you can carry that full bandwidth lossless surround track to your receiver is if you use HDMI for your audio (which requires that your receiver support HDMI audio decoding), or you get a player with multi-channel analog ouputs and use those (requires that your receiver have a multi-channel analog input). In the first case (HDMI), the soundtrack can be btistreamed to your receiver in its native format or it can be converted by the player to multi-channel PCM sound - either way, you will get the full resolution lossless surround track with up to 7.1 channels. In the second case (multi-channel analog), the player will decode the native soundtrack (DTS-HD, Dolby TrueHD or multi-channel PCM, etc.) to multi-channel analog and then all your receiver has to do is amplify this and send it to the speakers.

Using the HDMI option is ideal because it will generally give you the best results and will be simplest to setup and configure. But if you have an older non-HDMI-equipped receiver, you can get exceelent results using the multi-channel analog approach - it's just trickier to set up. An optical connection will get you decent sound (certainly no worse than regular DVD), but it cannot take advantage of the full performance of Blu-ray audio.

AND is there any reason why I won't be able to get 1024p video resolution with my HDMI-to-DVI adaptor?

Thanks!

Scott

Again, I have no idea what 1024p resolution is so I can't answer your question. Your TV should have a couple of specs: supported input resolutions (like perhaps 480i/480p/720p/1080i) and native resolution. The native resolution is the usable number of tiny mirrors on the DLP's DMD imaging chip. Native resolution on your set might be 1280x720 or 1280x768 or 1024x768 pixels (only newer DLP sets would have 1920x1080 pixel native resolution). The TV takes the input signal and scales it to fit the DLP's native resolution. In the case of 480i or 480p, the TV upconverts that to its native resolution, and in the case of a 1080i or 1080p input it downcoverts to its native resolution.

But the bottom line is that, unless you run into a HDCP security issue (which you might, depending on how old your set is), then whichever Blu-ray player you buy should be capable of outputting a video signal over HDMI/DVI that is the best your TV can handle (most likely 1080i, in your case).

Hope that helps.

-Chris

[MrBoylan]

Originally Posted by scottkahn

Actually, the Yamaha has optical input for 5.1 sound. I just picked up the Samsung BD-P3600... guess I'll see if the audio comes through in 5.1 surround!

Thanks,
Scott

The BD-P3600 is a fine player but the PC streaming feature is still a little flaky. Otherwise I'd say it's a solid choice.

Actually, you'd get better results using your receiver's 6-ch analog input instead of (or in addition to) the optical input. This way you can allow the BD-P3600 to decode the high def audio codecs (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD, multi-channel PCM) to analog and take full advatange of their quality. Many people in your situation (older receiver with no HDMI support) actualy use both the analog and fiberoptic outputs. Use the fiberoptic output for CD and DVDs (taking advantage of your receiver's bass management) and use the multi-channel input for Blu-rays to get the full sound quality of blu-ray. Just make sure to configure your BD-P3600 for 5.1 channel (instead of 7.1 channel) output over analog since your receiver only has 5.1-channel inputs. You do this by disabling the rear channels in the player's audio set-up menu.

One other thing you can do, if you decide not to use the analog inputs is you can set the BD-P3600's S/PDIF digital audio output to "bitstream-reencode." What this does is convert everything (DTS, Dolby Digital, Dolby TrueHD, multi-channel PCM, etc.) to a high quality (but still lossy) DTS stream which is then decoded by your receiver as DTS surround. It isn't quite going to be as high quality as multi-channel analog, but it will solve your problem with multi-channel PCM soundtracks which would otherwise be converted to 2-channel PCM over the optical output.

Anyway, good luck. Don't forget to support BPBS with any online purchases by using any of the links on this page:

Online Shopping: Great Deals and Coupons on Electronics (HDTV, Home Theater, Speakers, etc.): BigPictureBigSound

Regards,

-Chris

[scottkahn]

Chris,

Thanks so much for the extensive reply -- you should turn that into an editorial feature. My last big home theater investment was back in 2005, with a then-high-end Samsung 51" DLP TV -- 1080i, for the record (not sure what I was thinking when I wrote the 1024p thing), but it just has one DVI input. That's when I got the Yamaha receiver.

So this clears up my confusion on the audio outputs for now. Later this year we'll buy a new Yamaha receiver and new Samsung TV with lots of HDMI connectors.

For those of us who don't follow all the changes in the AV specs regularly, this thread was a great refresher course :-p.

So I went to hook it all up last night and that's when I discovered... I totally forgot that my one DVI connector is being used by my HDTV FIOS tuner :-p... so for now I used the component video output from the 3600 to the TV, and the optical connector for audio... and I have my 5.1 :-).

So far it looks fantastic. It definitely up-converts DVD to 1080i nicer than my Sony DVD player did, and the streaming Pandora works great -- I've used their Internet radio on my computer before. Didn't have any BD titles at home to test with, but they're in the mail.

First thing the BD player did was download a huge firmware update from Samsung, and everything worked perfectly.

Thanks for all the configuration tips!

Scott

[MrBoylan]

Originally Posted by scottkahn

Chris,

Thanks so much for the extensive reply -- you should turn that into an editorial feature. My last big home theater investment was back in 2005, with a then-high-end Samsung 51" DLP TV -- 1080i, for the record (not sure what I was thinking when I wrote the 1024p thing), but it just has one DVI input. That's when I got the Yamaha receiver.

So this clears up my confusion on the audio outputs for now. Later this year we'll buy a new Yamaha receiver and new Samsung TV with lots of HDMI connectors.

For those of us who don't follow all the changes in the AV specs regularly, this thread was a great refresher course :-p.

So I went to hook it all up last night and that's when I discovered... I totally forgot that my one DVI connector is being used by my HDTV FIOS tuner :-p... so for now I used the component video output from the 3600 to the TV, and the optical connector for audio... and I have my 5.1 :-).

So far it looks fantastic. It definitely up-converts DVD to 1080i nicer than my Sony DVD player did, and the streaming Pandora works great -- I've used their Internet radio on my computer before. Didn't have any BD titles at home to test with, but they're in the mail.

First thing the BD player did was download a huge firmware update from Samsung, and everything worked perfectly.

Thanks for all the configuration tips!

Scott

Hi, Scott,

I'm glad the player is working out for you with your current system, but actually the BD-P3600, like most Blu-ray disc players and upconverting DVD players, does not upconvert DVDs over component video, only over HDMI. So what you're seeing is the player de-interlacing to 480p, then the TV upconverting from 480p to its native resolution.

If you want the player to do the upconversion then you will need to swap the inputs so the player uses the HDMI/DVI input on the TV and the FIOS box uses component video. This is actually the best way to connect things as the FIOS box will only output up to 1080i anyway, and component video is fine for 1080i. You could also get an HDMI switch and put both devices through that before going into the TV, but this is probably an unnecessary expense.

Good luck!

Regards,

-Chris

[scottkahn]

Wow -- thanks for knowing that! I'll be swapping the cables tonight! I didn't want to deal with a switch box -- fine if I were still a bachelor, but that's too much for the wife and everyone else to figure out.
:-p

[MrBoylan]

Originally Posted by scottkahn

Wow -- thanks for knowing that! I'll be swapping the cables tonight! I didn't want to deal with a switch box -- fine if I were still a bachelor, but that's too much for the wife and everyone else to figure out.
:-p

Ah... I think it's time you explore the goodness of universal remotes! I like the Logitech Harmony models (as does my wife). You simply plug them into your USB port on your PC, connect to the online configuration Wizard, type in your various model numbers and the remote sets up "activities" automatically. One Activity might be "watch HDTV" - this will power up the receiver, TV and Fios box, switching everything to the correct inputs. Then once the components are turned on, the channel and guide buttons will operate the Fios box, the volume will operate the receiver and the aspect ratio button will operate the TV (for example). And all without any coding. Very handy as your remote collection starts to grow.

-CB

[scottkahn]

I have the Harmony 890, actually. I was picturing a switch box that requires manually getting up from the couch and pushing a button to select between HDMI inputs and thus not controllable from the 890. So unless you tell me there's a switch box with an IR remote that I can get for under $100, I'm better off waiting until later in the year to get a new TV. :-p