Low Subwoofer/LFE Output: BD80 Blu-ray to RX-V2500 receiver multichannel analog

[johndenver]

I finally got the bd80 setup and I loved it!! the picture and sound quality is spot on, only one gripe, as stated in earlier post on this forum, the LFE on the sub when using analog to the rcvr suffers alot, I had to really boost my sub volume way up and decrease the the sound field to minimum on the other channels to really get the bd80 to kick, all in al I am satisfied, wish Panasonic could some how add this feature via a firmware/software update to the setup menu, you can adjust the channels down so maybe if it was easy they could allow the adjustment of said channels up, unfortunately my rcvr don't allow for the adjustment of the lfe to sub while in multichannel input, again the bd80 seems like a very solid player. (Chris ) maybe you could add your 2 cents in on passing this info on to Panasonic, and again thanks for all the info..

Maury

[MrBoylan]

Originally Posted by johndenver

I finally got the bd80 setup and I loved it!! the picture and sound quality is spot on, only one gripe, as stated in earlier post on this forum, the LFE on the sub when using analog to the rcvr suffers alot, I had to really boost my sub volume way up and decrease the the sound field to minimum on the other channels to really get the bd80 to kick, all in al I am satisfied, wish Panasonic could some how add this feature via a firmware/software update to the setup menu, you can adjust the channels down so maybe if it was easy they could allow the adjustment of said channels up, unfortunately my rcvr don't allow for the adjustment of the lfe to sub while in multichannel input, again the bd80 seems like a very solid player. (Chris ) maybe you could add your 2 cents in on passing this info on to Panasonic, and again thanks for all the info..

Maury

Hi. Maury,

Glad you're happy with your purchase. The analog subwoofer output on the BD80 is 10 dB down from where it "should" be in the mix, in order to prevent overload during transmission. This is actually normal and other manufacturers with multi-channel analog outputs handle this the exact same way - this behavior is not unique to the BD80. To do it differently, or allow a boost to be applied to the subwoofer channel over the analog outputs would be problematic, so it's not something I'd expect we'll ever see in a firmware upgrade (it ain't broke, so how can they be expected to "fix" it?).

Are you 100% sure your receiver does not have the LFE channel or subwoofer channel boost option in the set-up menus for the multi-channel input? Which brand and model receiver do you have? If you post the details, we can look it up online and see if the feature is hidden somewhere that's not immediately obvious.

Also, read this tutorial, if you have not already as it will explain things in more detail:

How To Set up a Blu-ray Player Using Multi-Channel Analog Outputs... And Why: BigPictureBigSound

But if you post your make/model of receiver we might be able to find the setting.

Regards,

-Chris

[johndenver]

I listed the rcvr in my first post with my equipment that I was trying to setup, here it is, yamaha rx-v2500, I read most of the earlier post on how to setup the bd player to my rcvr, but I could have missed something. This is my setup currently BD player set to 7.1 ch surround with the center and fronts to large, the rear surround set to small with the bass set to both sub and fronts, all the channels turned doen to -3db except for the sub which is set to 0 and the volume/gain at each sub turned up quite a bit, all in all it sounds pretty good for now, just don't ahve that room shaking bass that I am used too, I plan to change the setup to 2+5.1 ch surround and give a try in the next few days, and again thanks for all the help and info...

Maury

[MrBoylan]

Originally Posted by johndenver

I listed the rcvr in my first post with my equipment that I was trying to setup, here it is, yamaha rx-v2500,

Yeah I saw that later. I gotta say, I'm pretty shocked because that's a pretty high end receiver and I couldn't find any note in the manual about how to adjust gain on the multi-channel input's subwoofer channel. Your best bet might be to call Yamaha and hope for a good support person. Or post over on avsforum and hope you run into a clever owner of the RX-V2500 who has figured out exactly what all these arcane settings mean and whether any of them translates to a boost specific to the subwoofer input on the multi-channel.

Most likely scenario is that the receiver actually applies the 10 dB boost by default to the analog inputs as this would be consistent with the way multi-channel analog outputs work, as far as the subwoofer channel goes. The Onkyo and Integra receivers do this, but they do include a 10 dB cut option in their set-up menus, just in case. The Yamaha RX-V2500 also includes a subwoofer gain adjustment in the manual settings (I think it's -20 dB to +3 dB), but the manual says nothing about whether this is specific to the analog inputs.

I read most of the earlier post on how to setup the bd player to my rcvr, but I could have missed something. This is my setup currently BD player set to 7.1 ch surround with the center and fronts to large, the rear surround set to small with the bass set to both sub and fronts, all the channels turned doen to -3db except for the sub which is set to 0 and the volume/gain at each sub turned up quite a bit, all in all it sounds pretty good for now, just don't ahve that room shaking bass that I am used too, I plan to change the setup to 2+5.1 ch surround and give a try in the next few days, and again thanks for all the help and info...

Maury

There's really no difference using the 7.1 or the 2+5.1-ch outputs as long as you turn off the unused channels in the BD80 speaker set-up screen. If you're using the 7.1-channel outputs but not using all channels and you have NOT turned off the unused channels, then you will have a problem as some information will be routed to channels which do not exist in your set-up.

But the one thing that should have an immediate noticeable impact in your sound right now is if you set your rear speakers to LARGE (set *all* speakers to large in the BD80's speaker configuration screen). When you set any of your speakers to SMALL, the subwoofer output drops another 5 dB (15 db total) as the player routes those other speakers' bass frequencies to the subwoofer channel, but drops the level to prevent overload. Again, this is done anticipating that the receiver will raise everything back up to its proper level.

I know it may not make much sense to configure the player for large speakers when your speakers are actually small, but I'll bet you'll see (hear) a noticeable bump in the bass output if you set all speakers to large.

Try it and let us know if it helps.

By the way, I'm going to put this in its own thread so it's easier to find for anyone else having this issue.

Regards,

-Chris

[johndenver]

Thanks again for all the info and help, I will change all the speaker settings to lrg, change the dynamic compression to min and report back with the results, and again thanks...

Maury

[johndenver]

made the adjustment to large on all the spkr settings and the bd player came more alive, I do notice more bass from the sub now, thanks again for all the info and help..

Maury

[rgs]

Chris,

I have what is in some ways an analogous problem. Just got the BD80 a few days ago and I'm outputting the sound to a Teac AG-9320 receiver which has no HDMI imputs so I'm using the 2ch+5.1 output to the Teac's 6 analog channel connectors. When I go into the BD-80's setup to adjust speaker volume all the speakers are there and set to Large but I can't adjust the sub volume up. Oddly enough I can adjust it down. When I press the up button on the remote nothing happens. When I try to test the subwoofer no sound comes out although the other speakers all sound. But if I exit 6 channel direct on the Teac
and run the Teac test on the speakers, the sub tests ok so there can't be any problem with the sub itself. All the connections seem tight. The fact that I can't adjust the sub volume up in the BD-80 menu seems to indicate there's something happening in the BD-80.

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks,
Richard

[MrBoylan]

Originally Posted by rgs

Chris,

I have what is in some ways an analogous problem. Just got the BD80 a few days ago and I'm outputting the sound to a Teac AG-9320 receiver which has no HDMI imputs so I'm using the 2ch+5.1 output to the Teac's 6 analog channel connectors. When I go into the BD-80's setup to adjust speaker volume all the speakers are there and set to Large but I can't adjust the sub volume up. Oddly enough I can adjust it down. When I press the up button on the remote nothing happens. When I try to test the subwoofer no sound comes out although the other speakers all sound. But if I exit 6 channel direct on the Teac
and run the Teac test on the speakers, the sub tests ok so there can't be any problem with the sub itself. All the connections seem tight. The fact that I can't adjust the sub volume up in the BD-80 menu seems to indicate there's something happening in the BD-80.

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks,
Richard

Hi, Richard,

You're not doing anything wrong. All of the speaker level settings on the BD80 are attenuation only (lowering the level). The player does not allow you to raise any of these above unity gain as this can cause overload on the amp side. Most (if not all) players with analog outputs work this way. Also, the BD80's test tone does not generate a tone for the subwoofer channel. It's been this way since the BD50 and is by design (though I really don't know why). I probably should have mentioned that in the BD80 review, but I didn't as it was already getting long so I just linked the analog set-up section to the BD55 review where I covered this in more detail.

Your receiver should (but might not) have a subwoofer boost specific to the multi-channel analog inputs. If not then the only option is to raise the overall volume level on your subwoofer itself to where it sounds right for the analog inputs then re-do the digital surround settings on your receiver to accomodate this.

In terms of figuring out the right level for the sub, you can either do it by ear, or use a test disc (preferably a DVD or Blu-ray disc, not a CD so you can get discrete outputs for all channels). I use the "AVIA Guide to Home Theater" DVD for subwoofer set-up and level calibrations as it has some nice discrete test tones for all channels.

Good luck!

-Chris

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by MrBoylan

Yeah I saw that later. I gotta say, I'm pretty shocked because that's a pretty high end receiver and I couldn't find any note in the manual about how to adjust gain on the multi-channel input's subwoofer channel. Your best bet might be to call Yamaha and hope for a good support person. Or post over on avsforum and hope you run into a clever owner of the RX-V2500 who has figured out exactly what all these arcane settings mean and whether any of them translates to a boost specific to the subwoofer input on the multi-channel.

Most likely scenario is that the receiver actually applies the 10 dB boost by default to the analog inputs as this would be consistent with the way multi-channel analog outputs work, as far as the subwoofer channel goes. The Onkyo and Integra receivers do this, but they do include a 10 dB cut option in their set-up menus, just in case. The Yamaha RX-V2500 also includes a subwoofer gain adjustment in the manual settings (I think it's -20 dB to +3 dB), but the manual says nothing about whether this is specific to the analog inputs.

It's been my experience when responding to posts from Yamaha owners that there's no way to do the analog SW boost on many of those receivers. There's no setting for the sub adjustment and the channel trims seem to affect the digital settings as well.

[ramgeio]

Hi, I've also got a yamaha receiver, the rxv650. This doesn't have any sw boost in the menu. Anyone knows if the boost is default in the yamaha receivers or if there just isn't an option. Then it means I have to adjust volume on the sw whenever I switch from dvd to bd. And thats a pain.