24 Hz (or multiples of) displays...

[OzzieBloke]

Greetings all, and particularly to MrBoylan,

I'm getting a headache trying to find a reliable source that will clearly state whether or not a particular Plasma panel will or will not refresh its screen at a direct multiple of 24 in order to play Blu-ray or other 24p material without introduced telecine judder.

Specifically, the TH-50PZ80A. But I would like to find a comprehensive list of plasma panels that do likewise; so far, the only ones I know of that do so are the Pioneer Kuros, and we all know Pioneer has left the market...

I read somewhere else on the forum that the Panasonic z800 series did this at 48 Hz... only to read a review that the TH-50PZ80U did not support it (and I assume this means the TH-50PZ80A will not support it either).

Is there somewhere I can reliably find out this information? I've even tried calling reps from Panasonic, and even they can't give me a straight answer...

[Daylightdon]

I too would like to see such a list.

Take a look at the Panasonic TC-P50V10

TC-P50V10 - All VIERA® Flat-Panel HDTVs - Shop and Compare at Panasonic

[OzzieBloke]

It's been a challenge for me; the Australian Panasonic main website, unlike the US one, doesn't state definitively whether or not they have 24p Cinema output that isn't 2:3 pulldown.

[Daylightdon]

I believe this model has what you are looking for.
Here is a cut and paste from the Panasonic tech specs.



Screen Coating (Filter) New AR (Anti-Reflective) Filter
Progressive Scan Yes
24p Cinematic Playback Yes
24p Playback(2:3) Yes
Digital Cinema Color Yes
Deep Color Yes
x.v.Color Yes
Studio Ref Mode Yes
Pro Setting Yes
THX Mode Yes
Motion Adaptive 3D Y/C Digital Comb Filter Yes
3D Color Management Yes
Sub Pixel Control Yes
Motion Pattern Noise Reduction Yes

[OzzieBloke]

Thanks for that; I'd found those specs on the US website, but it's always a bit of a crapshoot if the Australian model will be as faithful specification-wise. It should be, by rights.

[MrBoylan]

Greetings all, and particularly to MrBoylan,

I'm getting a headache trying to find a reliable source that will clearly state whether or not a particular Plasma panel will or will not refresh its screen at a direct multiple of 24 in order to play Blu-ray or other 24p material without introduced telecine judder.

Specifically, the TH-50PZ80A. But I would like to find a comprehensive list of plasma panels that do likewise; so far, the only ones I know of that do so are the Pioneer Kuros, and we all know Pioneer has left the market...

I read somewhere else on the forum that the Panasonic z800 series did this at 48 Hz... only to read a review that the TH-50PZ80U did not support it (and I assume this means the TH-50PZ80A will not support it either).

Is there somewhere I can reliably find out this information? I've even tried calling reps from Panasonic, and even they can't give me a straight answer...

Hi, and welcome to the forum,

I can't speak to the Australian models, but in the US, the only models with 24p Cinematic Playback in the Panasonic line-up are the PZ800 and PZ850 series (2008/2009) and the V10 and Z1 series (2009/2010).

For the 50-inch current year model that would be the TC-P50V10 and it is now shipping (in the US at least):

• Amazon.com: Panasonic TC-P50V10 50-inch VIERA 1080p Plasma HDTV: Electronics
• Panasonic TC-P50V10 Plasma TV - In Stock at OneCall.com

If there are corresponding "V10" and "Z1" series model in Australia, then I'd hope they would also have the 24p native playback.

Regards,

-Chris

[MrBoylan]

I too would like to see such a list.

Take a look at the Panasonic TC-P50V10

TC-P50V10 - All VIERA® Flat-Panel HDTVs - Shop and Compare at Panasonic

I'll see if I can throw something together when I get some "free time." Just got back from an extended weekend in the land of no broadband internet and no cell service. It's actually kind of nice. E-mail and web were not a priority this weekend (and good thing, because at dial-up speeds, even a simple forum post can be a chore!).

BTW, OneCall now has your 50-inch V10 in stock, but I think they only have one so order it before someone else does!

Panasonic TC-P50V10 Plasma TV - In Stock at OneCall.com

Amazon has it listed as well but it's also going through OneCall.

-CB

[MrBoylan]

Well, it's a start...

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/fo...p-support.html

-CB

[OzzieBloke]

Thankyou for your efforts, MrBoylan, they are very much appreciated; even if they are only the US models, it gives me some specifics to approach the Australia reps with so I can pick their brains appropriately.

[MrBoylan]

Thankyou for your efforts, MrBoylan, they are very much appreciated; even if they are only the US models, it gives me some specifics to approach the Australia reps with so I can pick their brains appropriately.

Well the major complicating factor with regards to models in the UK and Australia is that a feature for "native 24p support" may be less relevant than it is in the US. Your power and broadcast standard is 50 Hz, so the way that TVs in UK and Australia could handle 24FPS source material is by converting it to 25 FPS and doubling it to 50 Hz. This speeds up the film about 4% which is typically not noticeable. There is no need for the 3:2 cadence and the requisite 3:2 pulldown process which we have to do here in the US to convert 24p material to 60 Hz. [update: Actually, upon reflection, that's probably not how it's done after all, as the player wouldn't be outputting the stream fast enough to keep up with the 25fps output.]

24 FPS material is mastered for UK/PAL 50 Hz broadcast this way and the reverse is true when 25FPS material is filmed and created (for broadcast in the UK or Australia). When released for broadcast in the US market, this 25FPS material is converted to 24FPS which slows the film down by 4% (again, not generally noticeable).

Of course, the problem with the 50 Hz TV system in general is the flicker. Some people's eyes are more sensitive than others to the flicker that is visible in a 48 Hz or 50 Hz TV signals. The frame isn't refreshed often enough to produce a solid, flicker-free image. I've found that my eyes adjust pretty quickly to it on the 48 Hz Panasonic plasmas but others find it bothersome. The Pioneer sets use a display rate of 72 Hz which seems to be fast enough to prevent most people from experiencing flicker. The new Panasonics support 24p material at 96 Hz (in Cinematic Playback mode) which should further reduce any experience of flicker.

But honestly I don't know how (or if) Panasonic will handle Cinematic Playback in UK and Australian models. There would be a benefit in supporting 24p content natively and displaying each frame 4 times at 96Hz - less flicker and accurate playback speed - but I couldn't find any definitive info about how it's done in the Australia market and on which models.

Unfortunately, you really need to take any US reviews and model information with a big grain of salt because of the inherent power and broadcast differences between the countries means that the way they solve the problem for the US and UK/Australia markets may be different. Try to check out reviews of UK models as they would be closer (from a format and technology standpoint) to the Australian models.

Hope that helps.

-CB