Is this technically correct? 1080p sharper than 1080i (DirecTV)

[Daylightdon]

This came fro a DTV promo:
"It doesn't get any better than this. You may have heard of 1080i, the HDTV format that delivers the maximum number of lines of resolution. 1080p gives you the same number of lines but displays a picture that's even sharper and more fluid than you get with 1080i, especially for fast action. DIRECTV will soon offer select DIRECTV on DEMAND titles in 1080p. "

[MrBoylan]

This came fro a DTV promo:
"It doesn't get any better than this. You may have heard of 1080i, the HDTV format that delivers the maximum number of lines of resolution. 1080p gives you the same number of lines but displays a picture that's even sharper and more fluid than you get with 1080i, especially for fast action. DIRECTV will soon offer select DIRECTV on DEMAND titles in 1080p. "

Yes it is technically correct, 1080p/24p broadcasts can help to eliminate motion "judder" when displayed on a compatible TV. But a good video processor or TV can take a 1080i/60 broadcast and extract the 1080p/24 signal embedded within so 1080p/24 broadcasts are not necessarily going to show a dramatic improvement for most people on most display devices.

The real reason a 1080p/24 signal is preferred to a 1080i/60 broadcast of that same underlying 1080p/24 content (for cable and satellite operators) is that the native 1080p/24 broadcast can actually use about 20% less bandwidth than 1080i/60 for identical quality, or you can use the same bandwidth and apply less compression to the video signal, thereby getting higher quality video from the same broadcast bandwidth.

Also the interlacing/de-interlacing process is not fool proof, so if you get bad encoding or bad decoding (progressive to interlaced/interlaced to progressive) then you will get some artifacts when using 1080i/60 to broadcast native 1080p/24 content. If you leave it 1080p/24 the whole way from source through the broadcast to the receiver and into the display then it's less likely for something to get screwed up along the ride.

But of course, only a TV that supports a 24p input and natively converts that to a multiple of 24 frames per second (which many TVs *do not do*) will be able to see the true benefits of a 1080p/24 native broadcast.

By the way, DISH Network has had native 1080p broadcasts available as Video on Demand/Pay Per View since August of last year. It's still limited in selection (one specific title per month) but it works great, and on existing hardware. You can read more about that here:

HDTV Owners Salivate as DISH Network Goes 1080p with TurboHD: BigPictureBigSound

-CB

[Daylightdon]

Thanks Chris, You have cleared something up for me thta was always a little hazy if you know what I mean.
I have a Panasonic 42 inch 1080P/60.
That was not known to me until sometime after purchase when I was 'sitting' reading the instruction manual and came across the spec saying "1080P/60".
I had my doubts, so I phoned Panasonic, and spoke to a technician who did not explain as clearly as you. He even "poo-pooed" the 24FPS. All this was about 2.5 years ago.
I have learned a lot since.
Within the next year a NEW 50" in in the works!

Thanks for your help.

[Daylightdon]

Chris, I have searched Panasonics web site extensively but nowhere can I find a reference to 1080P/60 or 1080P/24.
This is the set I'm looking at but I want to be sure now that I know what to look for.

PS How will Blu-ray look on my current 1080P/60 set?

[MrBoylan]

Chris, I have searched Panasonics web site extensively but nowhere can I find a reference to 1080P/60 or 1080P/24.
This is the set I'm looking at but I want to be sure now that I know what to look for.

PS How will Blu-ray look on my current 1080P/60 set?

I think you forgot to include a link for the TV you were looking at.

First of all, Blu-ray looks better on any HDTV than virtually any other source, not just becuse it supports native 1080p/24 output but because of its lower compression, greater color depth, etc. Whether you play a Blu-ray back on a set like yours which has 1024x768 native pixel resolution or you play it back on one of the professonal 4K projectors that sell for $100K+, Blu-ray looks (and sounds) great.

Many TVs (including yours) do not support a native 24 FPS input. They accept a 1080p 60 Hz input which matches their native display rate (60 Hz which happens to match our AC power rate - not just a coincidence). In this case, the player converts the native Blu-ray disc content (usually 1080i/60 or 1080p/24) into a 1080p/60 output. This can display some "judder" (uneven motion) but most people don't notice this or are not bothered by it.

There are two kinds of TVs that support a native 1080p/24 input - those that accept the input but then convert it internally to 60p for display (which is most common, and mostly useless) and those that accept the 24p input and convert it to a native multiple of 24 frames per second (48 Hz, 72 Hz, 96 Hz, 120 Hz or 240 Hz). To make things even more confusing, many 120 Hz and 240 Hz LCD TVs DO NOT display 24p content at a multiple of 24 frames per second - they convert the 24p signal to 60 Hz (thereby introducing motion judder since some frames are displayed more than other frames in order to map 24 frames into 60) and then double or quadruple that to the 120Hz or 240 Hz native frame rate of the TV.

But those TVs that do support a native 24FPS input (1080p/24 aka 1080/24p) properly are able to map the incoming 1080p/24 signal directly to 48 Hz, 72 Hz, 96 Hz, 120 Hz or 240 Hz by simply repeating the frame as many times as necessary - this produces smoother image reproduction than the 60Hz-only TVs. In some cases (mostly LCD TVs), there is additional motion processing built into the set that tries to smooth out the 24 FPS film motion by "interpolating" intermediate frames between each of the original frames. Some people think this make the motion look smoother and more natural but some feel that it makes films look *TOO* smooth, taking on a video-like appearance.

Personally, I prefer the TVs that offer 24P support *without* frame interpolation (or with the option to turn it off). To me these look much more cinematic and "film like" than the TVs that do interpolation. But this is a personal preference.

On the Panasonic TVs, the feature you're looking for is "24p Cinematic Playback" - it was available on the PZ800 and PZ850 models last year. But last year they did it at 48 Hz which produced some visible flicker. This year's models are supposed to support it at 96 Hz so the motion should be smooth without the flicker. I'm not positive which models will have it in 2009. If this article is correct (which I edited, so I hope it is), the feature may be available in the V10 and Z1 series only, both of which are fairly expensive and neither of which is shipping yet:

Panasonic Goes Hands-On with Z1 Uber-Plasma HDTV, New LCDs and All Things VIERA: BigPictureBigSound

Anyway... Blu-ray will look stupendous on your current TV, don't worry about that. But you will get the full cinematic experience of 24 frames/second only from the higher end TV models that offer 1080p resolution and native 24p Cinematic Playback.

hope that helps.

-CB

[MrBoylan]

Thanks Chris, You have cleared something up for me thta was always a little hazy if you know what I mean.
I have a Panasonic 42 inch 1080P/60.
That was not known to me until sometime after purchase when I was 'sitting' reading the instruction manual and came across the spec saying "1080P/60".
I had my doubts, so I phoned Panasonic, and spoke to a technician who did not explain as clearly as you. He even "poo-pooed" the 24FPS. All this was about 2.5 years ago.
I have learned a lot since.
Within the next year a NEW 50" in in the works!

Thanks for your help.

Wait... which TV do you currently own? Is it a native 1080p plasma panel (1920x1080 pixel resolution) or a "720p" plasma panel (1024x768 resolution) which supports a 1080p input? It's not particularly relevant to the discussion at hand, but when you said it was 2.5 years old and 42 inches, I assumed it was a 720p panel that happens to support a 1080p input.

-CB

[Daylightdon]

Hi Chris, It is model # TH-42PX6U.
On the Tech info page of the manual it lists all the numbers:480/60i/, 480/60p,720/60p, 1080/60i, 1080/60/p, 1080/60/p.
And it also lists the horizontal and vertical freq's for each designation.
Yes it has HDMI, which I use.
Just found the "PIXALS": 1024X768.

[MrBoylan]

Hi Chris, It is model # TH-42PX6U.
On the Tech info page of the manual it lists all the numbers:480/60i/, 480/60p,720/60p, 1080/60i, 1080/60/p, 1080/60/p.
And it also lists the horizontal and vertical freq's for each designation.
Yes it has HDMI, which I use.
Just found the "PIXALS": 1024X768.

Yep, it's a "720p" TV (I use quotes because a true 720p TV would have 1280x720 pixels but very few do). Your best resolution setting for the BD80 for HDMI output would be automatic or 1080p, but do not try to enable the 24p setting as your set wouldn't support that.

I guess you bought your set at Costco, right? I think that's the equivalent to a TH-42PX60U from other stores. My parents have a BD35 hooked up to one of those and are quite happy with it. Enjoy...

-CB

[Daylightdon]

Thanks Chris. I've learned a lot this afternoon.

The model I'm looking at is: Panasonic VIERA G10 Series TC-P50G10 50-Inch 1080p Plasma HDTV.

You should teach TV resolution 101!

[MrBoylan]

Thanks Chris. I've learned a lot this afternoon.

The model I'm looking at is: Panasonic VIERA G10 Series TC-P50G10 50-Inch 1080p Plasma HDTV.

You should teach TV resolution 101!

Well not to brag, but there is a reason we show up #1 (and #2) on google for "hook up HDTV:"

hook up hdtv - Google Search

But yeah, I think a short article on HDTV resolution or "What is 1080/24p?" isn't a bad idea... glad I thought of it.

Hey, only one more day until your BD80 shows up (well, that or a box of bricks... you'll know when you open the box).

Good luck!

-CB